Saturday, October 07, 2006

You wanted a debate Jack. You’ve sure got one.
Abu Eesa Niamatullah


Calls for a public ‘debate’ and ‘discussion’ about anything remotely Islamic these days in the West are becoming as predictable as a DFS sofa not being offered at full price – by the way, that means very predictable for anyone living outside the UK.

Jack Straw has asked for a debate about the veil, after eventually declaring he would rather have it abolished. Well, a debate he has certainly found.

At the onset should be a note of caution to Muslims: one cannot expect to practise ones religion so publicly and yet become overly offended when people want to question certain aspects. Jack Straw, insincere intentions aside, has not attacked the Muslims directly and has only addressed an issue which the greater British public at large have been wanting clarification on for a while now – indeed, this is an excellent opportunity for qualified Muslims to debunk the mysteries behind such a visually obvious, mysterious and perhaps even shocking statement of a Muslim woman’s identity.

Islamically speaking, the majority of scholars consider the covering of the face for an adult Muslim female with the face-veil or niqāb in the presence of non-related adult males as a religiously praiseworthy action, whereas a minority considered it an obligatory act. Thus, for a Muslim woman to remove her veil in the presence of ‘foreign’ men would be considered abominable at the very least and at its most serious, totally prohibited.

Islamic Law recognizes that the niqāb can be removed for various civil needs such as that maybe suggested by Mr Straw, particularly the Hanbali school of legal thought as confirmed by the eminent Jurist Ibn Qudamah in his masterpiece al-Mughni. Muslim women have the choice in various scenarios to remove the veil for a certain need as detailed in the legal texts yet her desire to not become too friendly or involved with ‘foreign’ males shouldn’t leave at least other female members of the community in despair. Indeed, maybe one should debate the great problem that non-related men exactly have if certain Muslim women don’t wish to develop relationships with them, even in the most insignificant sense. Does one sense male insecurity here? Hurt male pride? Now that’s a thought.

Many people enquire on the exact wisdom behind such a piece of clothing which is so at odds to what they would normally wear. From the benefits of this ensuing debate is that finally the public at large have realised that Muslim men are not sitting at home with a whip, forcing their women to cover their selves up but rather it is a decision based upon ones deep spiritual convictions to the concept of modesty and respect and above all, a sign of ones complete devotion to the Law of God. This, significantly, therefore takes the matter to the theological frame of reference and hence outside the rationale of human beings, something which is often forgotten in debates surrounding religion.

Of course, the Muslims are not alone in acting upon such a concept. The fascinating and deeply spiritual Jewish concept of Tzniut expresses the same sentiment; an attempt to refocus people from concentrating on the external appearance of a person but rather make sincere necessary contact with the inner self by encouraging modest dress and the covering of the hair and face even, exhibited most vividly in the Bedeken during marriage ceremonies; here, the groom brings down the veil over his bride's face, reminiscent of Rebekka's covering her face with her veil upon seeing Isaac before marriage as per Jewish Scripture. The veiling symbolizes her duty to live up to Jewish ideals of modesty and reminds others that in her status as a married woman she will be absolutely unapproachable by other men. According to Rabbinical teaching, “The covering of the face symbolises the modesty, dignity and chastity which characterises the virtue of Jewish womanhood.”

Indeed one might possibly excuse Jack Straw for his rather ignorant assertion that not being able to make full use of a woman’s cheeks and lips during conversation could inhibit better and deeper understanding. One social commentator has suggested that Mr. Straw would do well to take a few lessons from his blind constituents in how they are able to move forward with their inter-human interaction. May I also suggest that Mr. Straw, as a follower of the Jewish faith himself, try and gain a better understanding of Tzniut first before asking Muslims to change their own religious convictions.

Let us not forget the other great religion that used to proudly control much of the Western and Eastern World: Christianity. The Christian directive towards men and women dressing decently and modestly is something well documented and indeed most visibly demonstrated by Christian nuns. More relevantly to the issue of covering the hair, neck and face, followers of the more orthodox Eastern Churches will be most accustomed to Epanokamelavkion and other forms of covering for nuns and monks. Indeed, the female emphasis on maintaining such an external appearance draws it’s strength from King David in the book of Psalms, who states, "the dignity of the daughter of a king is her inwardness" – something remarkably similar to the Islamic concept of modesty or hayā’ and the Jewish practice of Tzniut.

Of course, living in the UK today, the Secularist lobby are rather indifferent to the justifications of religious groups if they go against their personal viewpoints and likewise react furiously to any suggestions by Muslims (or indeed others) that a female’s state of undress as one witnesses so often in society could be contributing to the moral and spiritual breakdown in law and order; they refuse to accept that a radical change in society’s approach to sexuality and male-female interaction such as that offered by the hijāb and niqāb is anything but an oppression and an insult to females. Fair enough, that’s their opinion - Muslims criticise it but that’s about as far they go in the debate.

Maybe British Muslims should leave said debate to their Christian friends to continue with as they quietly protect their values and beliefs, watching and waiting in the sidelines as others espouse a defence without the normal Islamophobic connotations attached. As the popular Christian author John Piper writes, “Many women (and men) today … judge [freedom] on the basis of immediate sensations or unrestrained license or independence. But true freedom takes God’s reality and God’s purpose for creation into account and seeks to fit smoothly into God’s good design. Freedom does include doing what we want to do. But the mature and wise woman does not seek this freedom by bending reality to fit her desires. She seeks it by being transformed in the renewal of her desires to fit in with God’s perfect will (Romans 12:2). The greatest freedom is found in being so changed by God’s spirit that you can do what you love to do and know that it conforms to the design of God and leads to life and glory.”

The Church, like all great religious establishments, not only identifies the problem but suggests the solution according to scripture. Their call for “discreet behaviour” and “modest modes of clothing” is a fair response, based upon Proverbs 11:22, "As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, so is a fair woman which is without discretion."

There is no need for a Muslim voice to reply back to Jack Straw, fueling all the puppets straining at the leash to scream at the Muslims, “Why is it that whenever we question something you do in your religion, you’re always complaining!?” The Muslim community is wasting its time trying to suggest that possibly, just possibly, the irresponsible indecent exposure in society today by women exacerbates the sexually aggravated crimes and behaviour we witness today spiraling out of control. Why should the Muslims be so ‘predictable’ when Christian authorities put forward a response to the age-old “to lust or not to lust” argument. As one Catholic commentator replies:

"Girls, when you pull on that tight sweater that amplifies your bosom and reveals your bare midriff, are you putting your Christian brothers before yourself? When you sit down and let your skirt ride up to reveal your thighs and underclothing, are you helping your Christian brothers "keep a covenant with [their] eyes" (Job 31:1)? The man who "looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart," according to our Lord in Matthew 5:28. Are you laying a trap for this lust and adultery by the way you dress? You may respond, "Well, I am not responsible for the way boys think. That is their fault if they can’t keep their minds off my body." Dear sister, you are grievously mistaken. "Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness" (Proverbs 30:20)."

Interesting isn’t it when it comes from the mouth of someone other than a Muslim?

But placing these arguments aside, one must also try to understand where secular humanist/feminist opposition to the veil stems from. ‘Defenders of social justice’ might be excused for their opposition due to the use of the veil in ancient times of the Assyrian and Greek nations where only the noble women would be allowed to wear such dress as a distinguishing feature. One could quite fairly, although utterly incorrectly perceive the Muslims playing a class game with their veils in light of this historical context

Also, it is quite possible that some might have confused the Islamic basis for the face-veil with the basis offered by the Bible for the covering of a Christian woman’s hair, which as mentioned in Corinthians 11: 3-10, “…A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head". One doesn’t believe that this is the case any more with modern day Christian women who dress modestly and it certainly isn’t the case with Muslim women who neither look to attain noble status out of arrogance to those in a state of undress neither cover their faces as a sign of a male’s authority over them; rather it is in order to conceal their beauty from anyone who may possibly have mischief in his heart, and to enable her to maintain her modesty and honour; the Qur’an states in 33:59, “O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks all over their bodies. That will be better, that they should be known so as not to be annoyed (by others).”

In fairness then, it is largely the irreligious Secularist section of modern society that has a real problem with all religious directives whether Christian, Judaic or Islamic, and naturally the niqāb provides a perfectly convenient concept to attack, sorry “question” – for indeed the best form of defence of ones ideology (and thus for example, the right to publicly wear as little as possible) is to attack the opposition. Muslim female adults, Christian nuns and Jewish married women are that opposition.

But here lies the conundrum. As British citizens living in Secular Britain today, we have signed up to a new standard of human rights – a set of guidelines that protects peoples’ freedom of speech and freedom of belief as per classic secular humanist ideology, different only from religiously driven human rights in that every person’s idea, opinion and belief is protected irrespective of the opinion of “God” or the “Religious directive.”

If that is the case, then surely the Muslim woman just as any other British citizen has her full right to wear exactly what she wishes to wear. It can be questioned and even criticized by others from society but that’s as far as it should go. Muslims cannot expect any less especially when they also, alongside their Christian, Judaic and other religious colleagues, criticise the huge rise in indecent and immoral clothing practiced in our societies today - Muslims in particular feel totally aggrieved at this state of affairs yet tolerate it patiently. This is what we have all signed up for living in Britain in the 20th Century and we either accept it or look for the exit door. This should be a debate about civil liberties but it is in danger of becoming nothing but sheer bigotry and possibly even racism through the back door.

If Muslims as well as Jews and Christians wish to preserve their honour in their own ways, the law of the land insists they be allowed to do so. Be critical, but respect their right. Muslims will also be critical no doubt of the converse, but have accepted their right as citizens of this country.

What this debate should teach us at the very least is that community relations and their success are not based upon “chance meetings in the street” as suggested by Straw or men wanting to improve better relations with their community by befriending all other women. Rather, people must recognize that if they wish for better community relations, people have to make an effort and get to know people properly, personally and sincerely. For anyone to use the other party’s niqāb as an excuse for their inability to develop a relationship with someone is not only ignorant, but rather pitiful at the same time. To then incite the community to react against innocent women, creating in the very least a tense atmosphere for a woman in niqāb and at the very worst physical abuse and attack as has been witnessed in recent times, only goes to prove the hypocrisy our ‘tolerant’ and ‘multi-cultural’ country is drowning in.

Maybe Muslims should ‘get out’ and ‘go back to where they came from’, back to their own houses in their own country - Great Britain - rather unfortunately for the bigots. It seems that the only people who are forcing Muslim women into their homes under a real oppressive veil, a veil of hostility and fear, are those wanting to discriminate against them according to their personal prejudices under the false pretence of trying to promote interaction, integration and community relations. How much are these social ‘experts’ actually helping to solve this very real problem?

Now that’s what I would call a debate.

25 Comments:

Blogger Steven_L said...

I've never understood why most British Muslims vote for the 'social experts' in the Labour party as you call them.

Islamic culture, in terms of British politics, is a conservative culture, it puts religious and family values first. British left-wingers have done their best to destroy good family values in this country though their social housing policies, means testing and redistributive taxation such as the disasterous tax credit.

As for what the British public fear, although most of them aren't educated enough to put their finger on it, they fear more Takfiri terror attacks.

We aren't as brave as the media and politicians like to make out - we fear being blown up - simple as that.

Given, within the British Muslim community there is a minute number of Takfiri's at any one time and the security services have so far stayed on top of them for the best part. There are, however, many Salafists and conservative shi'ite's who refuse to even acknowledge the indigenous population of 'unbelievers'.

I believe the Wahhabi's, Salafists and fundamentalist shi'ites would be better off living in an Islamic State than in Britian, there will never be good community relations between mainstream white Brits and the more extremist Islamic schools.

2:51 PM  
Blogger AbuUmar said...

This made me laugh:
http://satiricalmuslim.wordpress.com/2006/10/08/jack-straw-to-muslims-this-isnt-about-you/

3:25 PM  
Blogger M. S. M. Saifullah said...

AE, a very good piece of writing here, alhamdulillah.. You did not cite the references from the Jewish sources, not even in the form of a link where the readers can verify your material. Was it not for isnad, anyone would have said anything....

12:30 AM  
Blogger Tufayl said...

as-salamu'alaykum AE,

Masha'Allah and may Allah reward you for your effort expended. Amin. Perhaps you can forward this onto some of the broadsheets or other news networks, in hope they may publish the other side of the debate. Allahu Alam.

Steven - You said you never understood... and to be honest I don't understand how the Niqaab debate has much to do with alleged groups who allegedly wish to murder innocent British people?

Is this another debate you wish to start? Perhaps you should spend more time in understanding the ways of "British" / "Western" culture which I guess you identify yourself with before delving into the sectarian history of Islam, of which most westerners know little about except that they regurgitate out the same prejudicial "garbage" without much depth of understanding. A good place to start would be books by the likes of Noam Chomsky - I heard the Venezuelan President is quite a fan! :) Amazon has a plethora of books written by this author.

I particularly liked his book "9-11" short and concise, although others like "Manufacturing Consent" and "Necessary Illusions" are more comprehensive for the avid reader.

Back to the Niqaab issue - I was told Nick Ferrari from Radio 1, (although I think Nick Lada is more appropriate a name), referred to Muslim women who wore niqaab as "letterboxes" - perhaps someone could enlighten this provocative if not cheap racist individual of his Jewish background.

5:10 AM  
Blogger Yusuf Smith said...

As-Salaamu 'alaikum,

Nick Ferrari is on LBC (97.3FM) in the morning, not Radio 1, although the obnoxious Vanessa Feltz on BBC London (94.9) ploughs pretty much the same furrow.

6:11 AM  
Blogger Umar Lee said...

This is a very strong post. I think what we are going to see is that in Europe today people cannot relate to the logic and arguments of faith whereas in the States you can easily tell someone " hey its my religion to do this so I am doing it so back off" and people will mostly accept that.

6:52 PM  
Blogger K said...

asalamu alaikum good to see you back blogging AE hope your ramadan is going well i just wanted to say on the issue of niqab (and i am a non niqab wearing sister) that it is a personal choice that no-one has a right to interfere in and it makes me feel like puting it on just in support of my sisters who do wear it. i am a revert sister who feels uncomfortable when i see women who are barely covered with everthing on display does that mean i should appeal for them to cover up?

12:37 PM  
Blogger K said...

White terrorists don’t make the news
http://www.blink.org.uk/pdescription.asp?key=12850&grp=66&cat=330
A FORMER British National Party member has been accused of possessing the largest amount of chemical explosives of its type ever found in the country.
Robert Cottage, 49, of Talbot Street, Colne, appeared before Burnley magistrates last week charged with possession of an explosive substance.
Officers claim that their find is the largest haul of chemicals of its kind discovered.
The case has attracted little publicity as the national media continue to focus on Muslims.
Cottage reportedly drives disabled children to school. Police sealed off Cottage's home and were believed to have continued their search over the weekend. His Peugeot car has been taken away for examination.
Cottage was charged under the Explosives Substances Act 1883 last Monday. 22 chemical components are believed to have been recovered from his house.
David Leach, representing Cottage made no application for bail. Magistrates remanded Cottage in custody and referred his case to Burnley Crown Court.
Cottage, a sub-contracted driver for Lancashire County Council, stood for the BNP in the May elections in the Vivary Bridge ward of Pendle Council.
62-year-old retired dentist David Bolus Jackson, of Trent Road, Nelson, was charged with similar offences. It has been reported that police discovered a rocket launcher, a nuclear biological suit, chemicals and BNP literature.
Christiana Buchanan, who appeared for the prosecution in Jackson's case, alleged the pair had "some kind of masterplan".
Cottage and Jackson of Trent Road made separate appearances in court charged with being in possession of an explosive substance for an unlawful purpose. Both were remanded in custody.
Amid alarm from nearby residents, police tried to reassure neighbours that they had not discovered “a bomb making factory.”
A local BNP councillor, Brian Parkinson, distanced his party from Cottage. “It certainly wouldn't condone the sort of thing he is allegedly being connected with”, he said.

12:39 PM  
Blogger Ahmed said...

Mashallah nice blog, keep up the good work.

2:20 PM  
Blogger Umm Maymoonah said...

On Saturday evening I received a phone call from a friend. ‘We need a niqaabi to go on the radio and discuss the niqaab!’

Apart from my daughter being unwell – hence very cranky, I wasn’t too keen. For a start I thought to myself, what would I say? And is there any point? I declined the invitation.

Its obvious that people will always ask us about issue’s that they find extremely hard to comprehend. And of course they would, as even many Muslims find issues such as polygamy and niqaab very hard to comprehend.

If someone asked us why do some women cover their faces or why are men allowed to marry four women? How many of us would be able to answer them in the correct way? How many of us actually are aware of the beautiful wisdoms behind these issues?

If we don’t then now is the time to find out. Not only for ourselves, to increase our faith with knowledge of Gods perfect wisdom, but also so we can teach these pearls of wisdom to others.

I remember reading ‘Polygamy In Islam’, By Dr Bilal Philips and Jameelah Jones.
After reading that book I actually WANTED to be a co wife! I’m sure you won’t hear that from many women, especially women who have been brought in the west.

Then after learning about it from, ‘A principle of Shariah’ point of view it only served to strengthen my conviction in Gods supreme Laws.

Likewise with the Niqaab. People always assume I'm wearing it because my husband told me to and are often very surprised to hear that I was wearing it for a very long time before I married my husband.

Even my In - Laws who are not Muslim still seem to blame it – amongst other things - on my husband – poor thing.

If I say ‘no thank you to a cup of tea or cake, he even gets scolded by his mum, ‘aww let her have a slice of cake’.

‘I couldn’t stop her eating if I tried’ he laughs. But she seems not to hear.


Recently one of the questions that was asked to a sister on a radio discussion was, ‘I bet you can’t wait to take it off when you get home?’

I found myself thinking, Yes, in the same way many women can’t wait to take off their high heals after work or an evening out. Or a man loosens his tie when he is in a more relaxed atmosphere, or when a lady pulls her hair back into a pony or a bun so she can Chillaax! And yes, so that I can greet my husband and daughter or my loved ones with a warm smile.


Four years ago, soon after I graduated I attended a training course where I had to spend 2 weeks working with a mixed group of about 15 men and women.

Throughout the first session their was A LOT of flirting going on. Then during a break when the women left the room for a drink the men started backbiting and making lewd comments about the ‘appearance’ of the women. I thanked God so much for my Niqaab that day!

These women had no idea because the men were so ‘nice’ to them. It kind of got too much for me though, as they were using very foul language, (maybe they thought my veil meant I couldn’t hear or something). I told them ‘very’ politely to mind there language and they all started apologizing profusely.

The next day on the way to training I saw one of the men on the bus and he recognized me. Again he apologized to me and said he’s sorry if he offended me. He said, ‘I’m really sorry, I don’t normally swear’. I asked him, ‘Is it just coz you’re with the guys?’ He just looked down embarrassed. He then started to talk about career prospects, it came up in conversation that I had just graduated from the school of Law Needless to say, he looked absolutely shocked.

I felt he had treated me with a lot of respect because of my full Hijaab and Niqaab, respected me for my speech and thoughts rather than treated nicely for the way I looked.
But although he respected me, he still didn’t understand my way of life or why I chose to dress the way I do.

I think the fact of the matter is, no matter how much dawa we give, talk or answer questions about Niqaab, or other things in Islam. One cannot fully comprehend this matter or understand it unless they understand our relationship with God.

If someone cannot count, how will they understand algebra? Likewise full comprehension and understanding of Niqaab and other such issues will only come with going back to understand the basics.

That is full comprehension of God’s Oneness, His Unity, and His divine Laws – the Shari'ah and its Principles. Only then can one understand our full Obedience to Him as our creator and sustainer and Law Giver.

I would advise All Muslims and Non- Muslims alike to look at it from this angle first.

4:39 AM  
Blogger Abu Eesa said...

Wa 'alaykum salam wa rahmatullah

I hope everyone is having a beneficial Ramadhan - as we enter the last ten nights, we can only live in hope for some acceptance of our little deeds...

Anyone who has a spare moment, please try and sit in i'tikaf. May Allah help us all to please Him, ameen.

Saifullah, nice to hear that Singapore hasn't made you lose your sharpness, although writing academically day and night seems to have made you forget that one doesn't quote extensively in such non-bahth basic public pieces of writing. But just for you, as a little Ramadhan gift, here are the various sources and books used for the piece taken from a slightly longer and more proper published version (ignore the irrelevant stuff written for another forum):

Quote from John Piper

Page 15, Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood - A Response to Evangelical Feminism, Crossway Books, 1991


Catholic Commentator

Page 3, Modesty and the Christian Woman, by M. L. Chancey, 2006.


Tzniut

Roughly translated as ‘modesty’, Tzniut is a set of laws particularly with respect to the female dress code as well as behaviour in public. For further elaboration on this concept, see:

Outside/Inside by Gila Manolson, Targum Publications, 1997

Halichos Bas Yisrael Vol I by Rabbi Yitzchak Yaacov Fuchs, Feldheim Publications, 1985

Beautiful Within by Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson, Sichos Publications, 1995


Fiqh

Actually, the jamhūr of the Fuqahā are in agreement about the permissibility and indeed obligation of removing the veil in certain circumstances, particularly qadhā’, identification and other civil and legal matters. It is just that the Hanbali madhab goes far further than any of the other madhabs and hence the most ‘liberal’ in this area of specifying various scenarios in which a woman must remove the veil and this is not the place for such a discussion..

As for the position of “Sunnah” (which is ‘religiously praiseworthy’ in the text) with respect to the niqāb then: the Ahnāf said obligatory due to fitnah (“It is forbidden for a young woman to uncover her face amongst men in our times, not because her face is ‘awrah but because of the fear of temptation (fitnah).” [ibn ‘Ābidīn 1/2720]), the old Shafi‘ī position was wājib but the school say Sunnah due to the fitnah, likewise the Hanbalis as well. Some of the Mālikiyyah differed and they are the school which least recommends the niqāb except in cases of major fitnah i.e. her beauty or a breakdown in society etc.

In conclusion, due to the issue of fitnah, the scholars all agree that a woman should cover and it becomes even more obligatory the more beautiful she is or more corrupt the society.

Incidentally, I’d be careful from delving into the fiqh of this debate for it is deep and very subjective. Fitnah seems to be the ‘illah for the ‘ulemā but that is very subjective and that is why the scholars all mentioned concessions for an old woman...

The references for these fiqhi positions above are: Tabyīn al-Haqā’iq 1/96, ibn ‘Ābidīn 1/272, Sharh al-Kabīr 1/218, Mughni al-Muhtāj 1/129, Kashāf al-Qinā‘ 5/15.



Hope everyone has a great last Ten and a happy Eid!

Wa-salam.

11:42 PM  
Blogger Yusuf Smith said...

As-Salaamu 'alaikum,

Regarding Umm Maymoonah's comment: that is often how men talk when they are together, just as when you go into all-male working environments, you will often see pornography on the walls. I experienced this at boarding school where I heard boys talking very vulgarly about women and referring to a pretty woman as a "horny b*tch". I disliked it intensely, because to me, women were people like my mum and my aunts (I have lots of them).

I was recently in contact with a sister in Canada who has been wearing niqab since she was 17 (she is in her final year at Uni now). She told me it was a generally positive experience "in terms of internal growth" and has been generally treated respectfully and held down two jobs, but she has also been attacked a few times, found it difficult to be the only one on the bus wearing it or who can't eat with the others in the canteen, and has even fainted in the summer heat, and for that reason wouldn't advise any sister intending to go to college or with career ambitions to wear it, even though she intends to continue. Do you agree with her sentiments?

12:35 PM  
Blogger The Baji said...

How can someone understand algebra if they can't count. I like that.

2:27 PM  
Blogger Chris said...

Salaam - long time no chat.

I confess that there are bits here when I agree with Straw and bits where I suspect he has the wrong end of the stick. I am not in the habit of making crude comments about girls, whatever they are wearing; quite frankly, lust and worse are the male's problem, not the girl. The barbarians who DARE to claim that the half-naked girl drove them into a franzy of lust are quite wrong; THEY are responcible for their own actions!

And yet...we as muslims are in grave danger. The danger has been brewing for years - the danger that we are regarded as...well, cancer cells within western society. We bring this on ourselves by claiming to be different - we have every right to be offended at stupid cartoons or the occasional comment made by people who don't trust us (and who can blame them?) BUT WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO TRY TO SILENCE THEM! I may not always agree with the BNP - who probabuly regard me as a traitor - but I'll defend to the death their right to say it.

WE HAVE NO RIGHT to try to force our...customs on others, non-muslims or even our own people. That only damages Islam still further; people are not going to react kindly to Islam when it is used as a whip and flail. What is happening, now, are the first signs of trouble coming. It won't be long before the next government is forced to clamp down on us...or people like the BNP do it for them.

You cannot force Islam on people. You'll only destroy Islam by trying.

Chris

1:33 PM  
Blogger umm moosa said...

umm maymoonah, I really enjoyed reading your comment. It was really interesting and really good advice, masha'Allaah.

This is totally off the topic but I'm thinking of buying a DAB radio that is not too expensive. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Jazak'Allaah Khayr

2:00 PM  
Blogger salaam said...

Salaam AE, Can I ask why you link to MEMRI in your blog? Their "news" is the biggest load of crap you can read.

12:37 PM  
Blogger The Godfather said...

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2:47 AM  
Blogger Kashif said...

Any update on this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/6075306.stm

6:39 PM  
Blogger Abu Eesa said...

Wa 'alaykum salam

Sorry for the delay.

1. MEMRI is one of my favourite sites on the web. You'll find clips of the 'Ulema on there that you won't find anywhere else on the net.

2. I'm sorry Kashif but I don't know of any updates of any of the fitnah that has gone on in Manchester over Ramadhan - I've been a bit out of touch to be honest.

3. I wouldn't buy a DAB radio just yet. I wasted £70 on one recently and found that:

a) the coverage for DAB is absolutely useless. And I mean, absolutely useless.

b) they are getting cheaper and cheaper, so wait until it gets very cheap. You probably want it for the cricket so you've got at least a month... :-)

4. Yusuf, I'm assuming your question is aimed at Umm Maymoonah. My advice is for all people to stick firm to their Deen and its outwardly manifestations - slipping now doesn't bode well for later generations, and we didn't get to where we are with our previous generations slipping under pressure. I've written extensively about this in previous posts wrt to the beard, thawb etc. Remember, the key for us in the West is to normalise all these actions/codes/items and not allow them to remain fringe behaviour.

And Allah knows best.

12:17 PM  
Blogger Yusuf Smith said...

As-Salaamu 'alaikum,

I agree totally. I've always believed regarding these things that ordinary Muslims should reclaim them from the extremists, because they were the normal ways Muslims behaved in most places before our lands were over-run. I've always said that sisters should not be pressured into wearing niqab, but that the Ummah should stand fully behind them if they do. Shaikh Nuh Keller said to his students that if sisters are to wear niqab (which he insists on when they visit Jordan and Syria) and do not want to look like "salafis" they should pull their scarves over their faces, which is pretty common there.

12:39 PM  
Blogger Saabirah said...

"...if sisters are to wear niqab (which he insists on when they visit Jordan and Syria) and do not want to look like "salafis"..." :-D

2:40 PM  
Blogger Abu Eesa said...

By the way, what does a "salafi" look like here?

Do I take that to mean to the "Saudi-styled" black niqab for women which covers her face except her eyes, and a fist-length beard and trousers which hang above the ankles for males?

If so, that sounds pretty Sunnah to me; Sign me up with the Salafis!

:-)

4:33 PM  
Blogger Umm Maymoonah said...

Yusuf Smith - I will reply to your question within 2 days InshaAllah. And also the comment by Chris.

10:05 PM  
Blogger Chris said...

Looking forward to them...

C

5:18 PM  
Blogger Umm Maymoonah said...

To chris - I dont see anyone trying to enforce Islam on anyone else. What i see is certain people in authority trying to enforce a system of collective behaviour on society which should be seen as the 'norm'.

To Yusuf smith -

I don’t agree with her sentiments. I’m often traveling here and there, from study sessions to shopping and visiting friends and family. I use public transport a lot and have often been out in the summer during the numerous heat waves we’ve had. On the whole I’ve enjoyed wearing my veil with a few negative experiences with ignorant people from time to time – but I had just as many, if not more negative experiences before I wore my veil and even before I wore my Hijaab! The problems are in the society we live in – with Muslims and non Muslims alike – not the veil.

I have never had problems communicating with people, men or women. Although as a Muslim woman I will refrain from talking to men unnecessarily, regardless of whether or not I cover my face.

During the summer I’ve noticed people in town, on the buses looking really hot and bothered. They strip down to cool themselves, using the ‘Metro’ as a fan. I just sit there quite comfortably head to toe in soft cotton. I make my own chadors so I get to choose what fabric I wear and obviously certain fabrics are better than others for different seasons. And because they are so loose and flow, they allow a breeze and feel quite cool.

Women have often asked me if I feel hot, when I’ve let them feel the fabric of my Hijaab, they’ve often replied things like, and ‘Wow that does feel cool!’ Or, jokingly, ‘Can I borrow it?’

Regarding my career I chose to work with special needs children and teach. I’ve had several different jobs where I was able to wear my Niqaab. I’ve also worked in a couple of state schools state schools where I did remove my Niqaab in the classroom, in the presence of just the children or female teachers.

With regard to Aisha Azmi’s case I feel that disallowing her Niqaab and consequently sacking her, is denying children their right to a full education! An education of understanding faith and diversity.

Recently a friend of mine graduated with a 1st class honors from Uni. In full Hijaab and Niqaab, one would assume a certain degree of communication was needed, in her tutorials or presentations for her to achieve that result.

I can understand though, why perusing certain other careers with Niqaab would be difficult in this country. Like being a doctor for example. Mainly due to lack of understanding and Education. But I don't think it would be impossible.

My husband and I visited Sweden last year, and if it wasn’t for the weather and the exceptionally high Tax rates - I would want to live there. It is said that 95% of the lakes are so clean you could actually drink from them! Not to mention the public toilets, they reminded me of a scene from a DAZ advert.

Whilst we were there I met up with Umm Anas – a Swedish national whose husband is in prison in France under the so called war on terror. (Read about her campaign on www.cageprisoners.com).

She is probably one of a few Muslim women in Stockholm who wears the Niqaab and as I accompanied her in running some errands I thought we would in the very least get a few stares, as it’s so rare to see the Niqaab or even many Muslims there. But nobody looked at us or treated us any differently, it was as though we weren’t dressed the way we were.

And why are the Swedes the way they are? Their education system.

I think there is much we could learn from the Swedish people. From a young age right at the beginning stages of their education they are taught to respect. Respect nature, respect people, and respect each other.

4:32 AM  

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